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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war)  Posted: April 17th, 2011, 7:22 am |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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Matterhorn: A Novel of the Vietnam WarI know you love your Vietnam films, not too sure about novels, but this one has been getting heavily recommended around the interwebs with some saying it's the best book on the war so far. Just thought I'd give you a heads up if you didn't know about it.
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: April 17th, 2011, 10:57 am |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Awesome, thanks!  Yeah, I'm definitely interested in books about it. I've read The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien, which is a very powerful book and actually just bought If I Die in a Combat Zone by him yesterday. I also own Fields of Fire by James Webb and have been meaning to read it too. That got huge praise as well. It probably sounds stupid, but I coincidentally tried to watch Tropic Thunder a few days after I read The Things They Carried and couldn't do it. I turned it off about 20 minutes in.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: April 17th, 2011, 6:09 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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I don't blame you, I thought it was stupid myself. A few weeks ago I watched We Were Soldiers for the first time. Great film. I'm thinking of picking this one up myself, I do love war novels and the praise for this is just too good to pass up. Quote: Amazing novel. I loved it, but I didn't like it. I probably will never read it again, it bothered me so much.
It's not only the best Vietnam novel, it may be the best war novel ever written. It is required reading, IMO.
I don't really know what the reaction to this novel will be in the long term, but I genuinely hope it's not quickly forgotten. It lacks the literary depth to be considered for the Pulitzer, I would imagine (based on recent winners and their many layered story telling), but on the other hand, it kicks the ever-loving shit out of The Killer Angels, and that won.
I genuinely hope Matterhorn is remembered alongside The Red Badge of Courage and All Quiet On The Western Front. I can't imagine a more important book being released this year. Quote: Chalk up myself as another Marine who loves this book.
I won't repeat all the other praise for this novel, other than to second it all. I'll just say that this novel got the Marine Corps in a way that I haven't read anywhere else, including Generation Kill and One Bullet Away and Joker One. Marlantes' empathy for every one of his characters is astonishing, even for officers like Simpson and Blakely. I'll also add that this is one of the very few books to capture both the utter craziness of a firefight and keep it comprehensible on a tactical level. Really amazing.
The thing Marlantes captured the best, though, was the love between grunts in a Marine rifle platoon. It's not that you're buddies with everyone, or even that you remotely like everyone. But you love them anyway, in a way that you never quite feel about anyone else. I never really understood it in my heart until I actually went on deployment and into combat. It's impossible to explain logically and very hard to convincingly portray on the page or onscreen. But Marlantes does it.
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: April 17th, 2011, 10:40 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Wild Colonial Boy wrote: I don't blame you, I thought it was stupid myself.
A few weeks ago I watched We Were Soldiers for the first time. Great film. I know that Tropic Thunder isn't making fun of the Vietnam war directly, but anything making light of it in any way just turns me off. That was why I couldn't watch it, especially after reading that book. I had to go to a book store today anyway for someone and looked for this, but couldn't find it. I didn't have a lot of time though. I'll go back tomorrow.
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: April 24th, 2011, 11:42 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Apparently this book doesn't stay on the shelf for very long at Barnes and Noble. The paperback is being released in just over a week. I reserved one.
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: May 9th, 2011, 9:34 am |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Picking this up tomorrow. I just finished Fields of Fire and have to say it was amazing. So intense and tragic, very sad. 5 stars. What a truly fucked up war.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: May 12th, 2011, 11:45 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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Just ordered this myself.
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NNID: kissoon32
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: July 20th, 2011, 6:00 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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Around 235 pages in and loving it. 
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: July 20th, 2011, 6:14 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Cool. It's next up after Dance of Dragons.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto Posted: July 29th, 2011, 6:22 am |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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Just finished it. Bloody great read, uplifting at times but heartbreaking the rest.
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 15th, 2011, 6:11 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Started this today. Can already tell I'm going to love it.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 15th, 2011, 10:46 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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It's the best book I've read all year... and the most depressing.
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 15th, 2011, 10:58 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Wild Colonial Boy wrote: It's the best book I've read all year... and the most depressing. I don't doubt it. I read Fields of Fire earlier this year which was my second book on this war and both were heartbreaking. I imagine this one will fall right in line if not worse.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 17th, 2011, 8:18 am |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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What's the best one you think I should read next? I feel like reading some more novels about that war.
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 17th, 2011, 8:52 am |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Wild Colonial Boy wrote: What's the best one you think I should read next? I feel like reading some more novels about that war. Well Fields of Fire was written in '77 or '78 or something, so it was very recent to the war and was very highly regarded at the time, but might seem a little dated now I guess. In fact, Oliver Stone ripped off lots of details from it when he made Platoon. It's very well written and an actual novel as opposed to a boring history lesson. Lots of very exciting and intense scenes. The only other one I've read is The Things They Carried by Tim O'brien. That one is a bunch of short stories that involve the same few characters but it's really damn good. Very depressing at times. He's written several books on the war. I own We Were Soliders Once...and Young which is another that gets super high praise but haven't read it yet. I think I've heard that it's sort of diary-styled and could be kind of boring though. Matterhorn is probably going to trump them all though because of its length, but Fields of Fire is mostly referred to as the "classic" Vietnam war book.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 19th, 2011, 7:17 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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I've put Fields of Fire on my wish list. Thanks!
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 23rd, 2011, 2:13 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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270 pages in and I'm feeling famished just reading this. Damn.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 23rd, 2011, 6:50 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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It only gets better/worse.
I lent my copy to my old man so I can't check where you are, are they still on Matterhorn?
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 23rd, 2011, 7:29 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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No, but I'm at 290 now. Hawke got promoted and they're all getting drunk back at VCB.
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 27th, 2011, 11:23 am |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Finished it last night. Incredible. Be back later to post more thoughts.
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 28th, 2011, 8:11 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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This is a book that I would recommend EVERYONE read, one of the most powerful novels I've ever read.
There are so many scenes and characters that still haunt me...
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NNID: kissoon32
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Cryptosporidium
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 28th, 2011, 11:00 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 12:23 am
Posts: 7767
Location: Austin, TX
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Spoilers could be had
After three novels about this war, I'm shown again another part of it. There are so many facets to this war from so many different angles, but that's typical of any war. The main difference between Matterhorn and the others is the lack of the Vietcong, which I thought was interesting. But this was set solely in one specific area where the rain was much more intense making the jungle in the northern part of south Vietnam (central Vietnam when looking at the entire country) incredibly dense. No villages, no acres and acres of rice paddies, no interaction with the indigenous locals at all. That aspect was a completely separate war in itself. Also the "Kit Carsons" were kept to a minimal role as well.
That's not a knock on Matterhorn, just shows how worlds apart two separate parts of the country and the war many of the soldiers were. In the high elevation and the constant rain near the DMZ, hypothermia was a real danger while Marines in the sun-scorched southern valleys of Vietnam were dying of heat stroke and being medevaced for heat exhaustion.
Matterhorn though had numerous unforgettable scenes and moments that will stick with me. The writing was just excellent. For some reason, the scene where Mellas and Bravo company are being humped almost to death from no food in the first half of the book, when they get to the point where they have to climb that huge cliff face to get to the next checkpoint after what, 8 days without food? Mellas gets the orders from the radio, looks at one of his men and makes this pissed off, intense pointing gesture to the top of the hill. It's a gesture and facial expression of supreme frustration and anger, partly because they have to be quiet and he can't scream and curse, so the intensity on his face as I imagined it just spoke volumes and was very powerful.
Another was Lieutenant Kendall's men running through the razor wire to get to the hill after they realized that they had gone the wrong way and men were dying because they fucked up. The immense pride they had to not let their fellow Marines die without them meant they were ignoring their own physical well-being just to get there and get shot all the same.
Jackson and Mellas' conversation in the fox hole about racism and the bond they were making... then the scene on the carrier in the ocean with Mellas trying to see Jackson and him just losing it. Wow.
I could go on and on. So tragic all the way around and the worst part is just how meaningless is at all was. An enormous waste of life for the control of a few hills in a jungle.
I would definitely recommend Fields of Fire after this because it'll show you a much different part of the war. The NVA was of course very powerful and organized, but the VC was something else entirely and it would be good to get a glimpse into that side as well.
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SteelBreeze
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 29th, 2011, 6:32 pm |
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Joined: September 21st, 2009, 9:56 am
Posts: 4989
Location: Washington, DC
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Bought this today based on you guys hyping it. Only $8 on Kindle so I figured what the hell. Pretty far down on the "to read" list though.
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Make your own path as you walk, and if you ever find footsteps before you turn away from them and continue to walk into the wilderness, where no man has been before you.
- Varg
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy, it is the wine of a new procreation, and I am Bacchus who presses out this glorious wine for men and makes them drunk with the spirit.
- Beethoven
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Wild Colonial Boy
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Post subject: Re: Hey Crypto (Matterhorn - Vietnam war) Posted: August 30th, 2011, 5:53 pm |
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Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm
Posts: 4669
Location: 'straaalya
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I'd bump it up. 
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NNID: kissoon32
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